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Use Your Head
Published on December 21, 2003 By russellmz In Politics
Hey out there. Some people out there read a poorly written conspiracy article on some funky conspiracy site that mentions the possibility of remote controlled planes and Mormons and Jews involved in the WTC and get very confused. Now to say with absolute certainty about someone usually leads to the person saying it to looking foolish. But be warned what I am going to say might be offensive to you: if you think 9/11 is a government plot, you're dumb. Really dumb. Drool on yourself dumb.

Now, before you start shouting about ad hominems and such, allow me to prove it. A site mentioned as a decent source was, which has an article on:

High-energy disintegration

Here is my well researched and respectful reply: WTF! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAH!

Allow me to set your bull---- o'meter off. This site's sources include:

"A physicist who worked on the original infrared beam weapon"

"according to America's leading fire engineering experts"

"a German physicist "

"A former East German physicist"

"another plasma expert"

Notice the lack of names among the "physicsts". Here is a name he did use: 'The television evangelist Dr. Robert Schuller visited the ruins and said that there "was not a single block of concrete in that rubble," suggesting that the nearly 425,000 cubic yards of concrete had disintegrated into dust.'

You hear that! A TV evangelist! "Not a single block in the rubble." Color me convinced.

A) Did he go through every piece of rubble?
How well does a cinder block fare when it falls from the 50th floor/gets smashed by tons of metal or other chunks of rubble falling from the 50th floor?

The best source: 'Television viewers saw the immense amounts of dust, described by one observer "as if some high-energy disintegration beam or laser had been focused on the towers, and pulverized the concrete into minute particles of ash and dust."'

PBS's NOVA Online: Why the Towers Fell. The biggest debunking part is The Collapse: An Engineer's Perspective. Notice, the engineer talked to is "a professor of materials engineering and engineering systems at MIT"), and not some guy with some experience in a similar field so he thinks he knows something about it. Plus he has a name. Guys with names: generally better sources than guys with no name. He carefully explains how the WTC could not have gone down any other way than straight down.
NOVA: The Twin Towers collapsed essentially straight down. Was there any chance they could have tipped over?

Eagar: It's really not possible in this case. In our normal experience, we deal with small things, say, a glass of water, that might tip over, and we don't realize how far something has to tip proportional to its base. The base of the World Trade Center was 208 feet on a side, and that means it would have had to have tipped at least 100 feet to one side in order to move its center of gravity from the center of the building out beyond its base. That would have been a tremendous amount of bending. In a building that is mostly air, as the World Trade Center was, there would have been buckling columns, and it would have come straight down before it ever tipped over.

Have you ever seen the demolition of buildings? They blow them up, and they implode. Well, I once asked demolition experts, "How do you get it to implode and not fall outward?" They said, "Oh, it's really how you time and place the explosives." I always accepted that answer, until the World Trade Center, when I thought about it myself. And that's not the correct answer. The correct answer is, there's no other way for them to go but down. They're too big. With anything that massive -- each of the World Trade Center towers weighed half a million tons -- there's nothing that can exert a big enough force to push it sideways.
As he mentions above: in order for the WTC to tip over, you'd have to tip it dozens of feet to one side. How exactly would that be possible?

Another big thing with WTC conspiracy theorists is steel. I don't want to copy massive sections but if you go to The Collapse: An Engineer's Perspective you can read how fuel reached every part of the floor at once, how heat and temperature are different, and how steel softening and buckling caused the Towers' collapse.

Stuff about the Pentagon will be made fun of later but for now you can read

on Dec 21, 2003
I think you're right. No one in there right mind would sa\tand by and allow something such as this to happen. GCJ
on Dec 21, 2003
Custom made distaster at the neo cons command___piss off the saudi's and expect no less than barbaric behaviour, screaming martyr that was 9-11. It's just too good for the neo con's cause for global dominance.
Sorry, but I think the USA has been conned, neo-conned, into " fighting" for fascist reasons.
Have fun.
on Dec 21, 2003
If you go to my 4 part reply to 'gemCityJoe' you'll see a complete minute-by-minute account of 9/11. This is not opinion, just facts of what really happened that day, and from many,many news and investigatory sources. The site is: You'll see that in response to a statement such as, "No one in their right mind would sit(sic) by and allow something such as this to happen" is clearly refuted there. The president was negligent and deliberately refused to act to order fighters out to stop those planes and insisted on reading to the kids until after the crash had occured. Those planes were less than seven minutes away and not allowed to go supersonic till authorized, further delaying them and allowing the crash to occur.
There were people physically in the bunker in the basement of White House while Bush continued to 'sit' and read, later stating he wasn't told until afterwards, a clear deception, and WHY?
No, you can't just wish away facts and say anyone who investigates is a crazy wacko, citing extreme examples of mis-information planted by agentes when clear facts are available and are being viewed by more and more Americans. Just go to http://www.cooperativeresearch.or/timeline/ and see an objective account for yourself.
on Dec 21, 2003
Ok Wahkonta, Given that what you are saying here is true...What do you intend to do about it? What can anyone do? We're not going to bring anyone back from the grave. Lets move on...GCJ
on Dec 22, 2003
i took a quick glance at that link posted.

it mentioned that us forces were at defcon delta. there is no such thing. there is a threatcon delta but defcon is numbered 1-5.

it also reports that some f-15 took 19 minutes to reach nyc when it can travel 1875 mph. but it fails to take into account the fact that it can only reach those speeds if it is stripped: no weapons, no external fuel tanks (which it mentions they had), etc.

By: Wahkonta Anathema:
...citing extreme examples of mis-information planted by agentes when clear facts are available and are being viewed by more and more Americans.

what mis-information are you talking of? the messed up examples i listed in the article were from a website YOU listed as a place to find more info. is the mis-information planted by agents you are talking about the debunking sites? pbs and
on Dec 22, 2003
Well, since you are equating the link with some mormon conspiracy site, which is a deliberate deception,(agente?) please allow a response. Let us read what this site IN FACT states of 9/11:

8:52 a.m. Two F-15s take off from Otis ANG Base, six minutes after being ordered to go after Flight 11, which has already crashed. [8:52, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:52, CNN, 9/17/01,
8:53, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:52, Washington Post, 9/15/01, 8:52, ABC News, 9/11/02] This is 38 minutes after flight controllers lost contact with the plane. They go after Flight 175 instead. According to Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, one of the pilots, before takeoff, a fellow officer had told him "This looks like the real thing." He says, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way." A NORAD commander has said the planes were stocked with extra fuel as well. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] Full-blower is very rare - it means the fighters are going as fast as they can go. An F-15 can travel over 1875 mph. [Air Force News, 7/30/97] Duffy later says, "As we're climbing out, we go supersonic on the way, which is kind of nonstandard for us." He says his target destination is over Kennedy airport in New York City. [ABC News, 9/11/02] According to Major Gen. Paul Weaver, director of the Air National Guard, "The pilots [fly] 'like a scalded ape,' topping 500 mph but [are] unable to catch up to the airliner." [Dallas Morning News, 9/16/01] ABC News later says, "The fighters are hurtling toward New York at mach 1.2, nearly 900 miles per hour." [ABC News, 9/11/02] NORAD commander Major General Larry Arnold says they head straight for New York City at about 1100 to 1200 mph. [MSNBC, 9/23/01 (C), Slate, 1/16/02] "An F-15 departing from Otis can reach New York City in 10 to 12 minutes, according to an Otis spokeswoman." [Cape Cod Times, 9/16/01] At an average speed of 1125 mph, they would reach the city in 10 minutes - 9:02. So if NORAD commander Arnold's speed is correct, these fighters should reach Flight 175 just before it crashes. Yet according to the NORAD timeline [NORAD, 9/18/01], these planes take about 19 minutes to reach New York City, traveling less than 600 mph.

(After 8:52 a.m.) William Wibel, principal of a school inside Otis Air National Guard Base in the Cape Cod region of Massachusetts, is inside the Otis base preparing for a meeting. He hears about the WTC attack and is told the meeting is canceled. He says, "As I drove away, and was listening to the news on the radio, the 102nd was scrambling into duty." [Cape Cod Times, 9/12/01] Given that the WTC story doesn't break on local news and radio until about 8:52, and it must take him some time to learn the meeting is canceled, go back to his car and so forth, he must hear the fighters take off well after 8:52. Yet NORAD says the fighters took off from Otis at 8:52.

8:53 a.m. A flight controller says to other airplanes in the sky regarding Flight 175, "We may have a hijack. We have some problems over here right now." [Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:53:23, New York Times, 10/16/01]

White House Situation Room Director Deborah Loewer.

(Before 8:55 a.m.) Captain Deborah Loewer, director of the White House Situation Room, is traveling in Bush's motorcade toward a Saratoga elementary school. She receives a message from her deputy in the White House Situation Room about the first WTC crash. As soon as the motorcade reaches the school, she runs from her car to Bush's car, and passes the message on to Bush. [Catholic Telegraph, 12/7/01, AP, 11/26/01] However, it appears Bush already knows (see (Between 8:46 - 8:55 a.m.)). Note that Bush maintains it is Karl Rove who tells him a few minutes later.

Bush's motorcade arrives at Booker Elementary. [A still from Booker video]

(8:55 a.m.) Bush's motorcade arrives at Booker Elementary School. [8:46, ABC News, 9/11/02, 8:55, Washington Times, 10/7/02, 8:55, Sarasota Magazine, 9/19/01, "just before 9:00," Telegraph, 12/16/01, "shortly before 9:00," Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/10/02, "just before 9:00," New York Times, 9/16/01 (, 9:00, Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/02] The trip is said to take 20 minutes, which confirms he arrives around 8:55, if it is true he left around 8:35. [New York Times, 9/16/01 (, St. Petersburg Times, 9/8/02 (, MSNBC, 10/29/02]

(8:55 a.m.) A public announcement is broadcast inside the WTC South Tower, saying that the building is secure and people can return to their offices. [New York Times, 9/11/02, click on interactive popup] Such announcements continue until a few minutes before the building is hit, and "may [lead] to the deaths of hundreds of people." No one knows exactly what is said (though many later recall the phrase "the building is secure") or who gives the authority to say it. [USA Today, 9/3/02] Given that at 8:43 NORAD was notified Flight 175 was hijacked and headed toward New York City, why weren't people in the building warned?

Karl Rove [Reuters], Andrew Card [AP], and Dan Bartlett.

(Between 8:55 - 9:00 a.m.) Just after the WTC crash, the beepers of politicians' aides are going off with news of the first WTC crash as Bush arrives and enters Booker Elementary School. According to photographer Eric Draper, standing nearby, Bush advisor Karl Rove rushes up, takes Bush aside in a corridor, and tells him about the calamity. Rove says the cause of the crash was unclear. Bush replies, "What a horrible accident!" Bush also suggests the pilot may have had a heart attack. [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] Dan Bartlett, White House Communications Director, also says he is there when Bush is told: "[Bush] being a former pilot, had kind of the same reaction, going, was it bad weather? And I said no, apparently not." [ABC News, 9/11/02] One account explicitly says that Rove tells Bush the WTC has been hit by a large commercial airliner. [Telegraph, 12/16/01] However, Bush later remembers Rove saying it appeared to be an accident involving a small, twin-engine plane. [Washington Post, 1/27/02] In a later recollection, Bush recalls that it is chief of staff Andrew Card who first warns him and says, "'Here's what you're going to be doing; you're going to meet so-and-so, such-and-such.' And Andy Card says, 'By the way, an aircraft flew into the World Trade Center.'" [Washington Times, 10/7/02] Says a reporter who was standing nearby, "From the demeanor of the President, grinning at the children, it appeared that the enormity of what he had been told was taking a while to sink in." [Daily Mail, 9/8/02] ["Shortly before 9:00," Daily Mail, 9/8/02, "just before 9:00," Telegraph, 12/16/01] In fact, Bush has already been told about the crash twice before this (see (Between 8:46 - 8:55 a.m.) and (Before 8:55 a.m.)). He should also be aware that NORAD has known since 8:40, if not before, that Flight 11 has been hijacked, and since 8:43 that Flight 175 has been hijacked. The New York Times points out that flight controllers learn Flight 77 has been hijacked "within a few minutes" of 8:48. [New York Times, 9/15/01 (C)] Is Bush and his aides putting on a charade to pretend he doesn't know there is a national emergency? If so, why?

Booker Elementary principal Gwen Tose-Rigell. [A still from Booker video]

(Between 8:55 - 9:00 a.m.) Just after Bush arrives at Booker Elementary School and is briefly told of the WTC crash, he is whisked into a holding room and updated on the situation via telephone by National Security Advisor Rice. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01, Time, 9/12/01] Rice later claims, "He said, what a terrible, it sounds like a terrible accident. Keep me informed." [ABC News, 9/11/02] School principal Gwen Tose-Rigell is then summoned to a room to talk with the President: "He said a commercial plane has hit the World Trade Center, and we're going to go ahead and go on, we're going on to do the reading thing anyway." [AP, 8/19/02 (D)] One local reporter notes that at this point, "He could and arguably should have left Emma E. Booker Elementary School immediately, gotten onto Air Force One and left Sarasota without a moment's delay." [Sarasota Herald-Tribune, 9/12/01 (] Why doesn't he? Note that CIA Director Tenet has already been told it was terrorism (see (After 8:46)) and Bush certainly should have been told by Rice of the three known hijackings at this time, if he hasn't been told already. How could Bush continue to think there is only a single-plane accident?

In fact these jets did NOT have weapons mounted and were almost in sight of the plane at time of impact. AND this goes without mentioning the clear facts as recounted here:
After 8:14 a.m.) At some point after the hijacking begins, the pilot of Flight 11, John Ogonowski, activates the talk-back button, enabling Boston flight controllers to hear what is being said in the cockpit. A controller says, "The button was being pushed intermittently most of the way to New York." An article later notes that "his ability to do so also indicates that he was in the driver's seat much of the way" to the WTC. Such transmissions continue until about 8:38. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01, MSNBC, 9/15/01]

Flight 175's intended and actual routes. [USA Today]

8:14 a.m. Flight 175 takes off from Boston's Logan Airport, 16 minutes after the scheduled departure time. [CNN, 9/17/01, Washington Post, 9/12/01, Guardian, 10/17/01, AP, 8/19/02, Newsday, 9/10/02]

(8:15 a.m.) Boston flight control tries but fails to contact the pilots of Flight 11, even using emergency frequencies. [8:14, Guardian, 10/17/01] A Boston flight controller states of Flight 11, "He won't answer you. He's nordo roger thanks". Nordo means "no radio." [8:15, New York Times, 10/16/01, "over the Hudson river," CNN, 9/17/01]

8:20 a.m. Flight 11 stops transmitting its IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal. [CNN, 9/17/01]

(8:20 a.m.) Flight 11 starts to veer dramatically off course around this time. [USA Today flight path image, on this page] Recall that if a plane goes two miles off course, it should be considered an emergency situation. [MSNBC, 9/12/01]

(8:20 a.m.) Boston flight control decides that Flight 11 has probably been hijacked, but apparently it doesn't notify other flight control centers for another five minutes, and don't notify NORAD for about another 20 minutes. ["About 8:20," Newsday, 9/23/01, "about 8:20," New York Times, 9/15/01] ABC News will later say, "There doesn't seem to have been alarm bells going off, traffic controllers getting on with law enforcement or the military. There's a gap there that will have to be investigated." [ABC News, 9/14/01]

Flight 77's intended and actual routes. [USA Today] Note the strange loop off course about halfway along the route to the west. This loop doesn't show on most flight route maps.

(8:20 a.m.) Flight 77 departs Dulles International Airport near Washington, ten minutes after the scheduled departure time. [8:20, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:20, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:20, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:21, AP, 8/19/02]

Daniel Lewin.

(Before 8:21 a.m.) Four hijackers get up from their seats and stab or shoot passenger Daniel Lewin, who once belonged to the Israel Defense Force, Sayeret Matkal, a top-secret counter-terrorist unit. He was sitting in front of one of the three hijackers in business class. This could have happened even before 8:13, but logically seems to have come not much before 8:21. A very preliminary FAA memo says Lewin is shot by Satam Al Suqami at 9:20. Clearly the time is a typo; perhaps 8:20 is meant? [ABC News, 7/18/02, UPI, 3/6/02, Washington Post, 3/2/02] Perhaps Lewin just happened to be there, and, with his past training, tried to be a hero and stop the hijack? Did the hijackers have guns or is the FAA memo wrong?

(8:21 a.m.) Inside Flight 11 and near the back of the plane, flight attendant Betty Ong calls Vanessa Minter at American Airlines reservations in North Carolina, using a seatback GTE Airfone. She begins relaying information to manager Craig Marquis at American Airlines' operations center in Fort Worth, but she can't transfer the call. Another supervisor named Nydia Gonzales also listens in from 8:27. Ong talks for 25 minutes, until the plane crashes. The FBI says that only the first four minutes were recorded, but won't release the tape. Other flight attendants relay information about what is happening in the front. She says the hijackers sprayed something in the first-class cabin to keep people out of the front of the plane. It burns her eyes and she is having trouble breathing. In hushed tones, she tells of a passenger dead (presumably Daniel Lewin) and a crew member dying. ["25 minute phone call until crash," ABC News, 7/18/02, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, USA Today, 8/13/02]

Flight attendants Amy Sweeney (left) and Betty Ong (right).

(8:21 a.m.) Another Flight 11 attendant, Amy Sweeney, calls American Airlines ground manager Michael Woodward and speaks calmly to him for 25 minutes until the plane crashes. Supposedly the call is not recorded but Woodward took notes. [ABC News, 7/18/02] However, the Boston Globe says it has a transcript of the call. [Boston Globe, 11/23/01] Her first comment is, "Listen, and listen to me very carefully. I'm on Flight 11. The airplane has been hijacked." She identifies four hijackers (not the five said to be on the plane) and gives the seat numbers for them. Even before the plane crashes, staff are able to determine the names, phone numbers, addresses, and credit card information for these four hijackers, including Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari. She reports that two flight attendants have been stabbed and a passenger has had his throat slashed. She says the hijackers seem to be of Middle Eastern descent. ["Over the next 25 minutes," ABC News, 7/18/02, AP, 10/5/01]

(After 8:21 a.m.) While flight attendant Amy Sweeney is relating details on the phone about the hijackers, the men are storming the front of the plane. She says they "just gained access to the cockpit." It's probable she calls just after the storming begins, and it is during this struggle when the hijackers stab the two first-class flight attendants nearest to the cockpit, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin. Sweeney says the hijackers have a bomb with yellow wires attached. [ABC News, 7/18/02, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01] Could it be that one of the hijackers was posing as a pilot passenger and thus had been able to be in the cockpit as an observer, as happened on some of the hijacker's test run flights? If so, he would have begun the hijack around 8:13, but would only received reinforcements and had Mohamed Atta take over the flying of the plane around now. [Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, AP, 10/5/01, ABC News, 7/18/02] This would explain why Sweeney reported four hijackers, not five.

Flight 11 pilot John Ogonowski.

(8:24 a.m.) The pilot of Flight 11, John Ogonowski, activates the talk-back button, enabling Boston flight controllers to hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: "We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you will be OK. We are returning to the airport." A controller responds, ''Who's trying to call me?'' The hijacker continues, "Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet." [8:24:38, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:24:38, New York Times, 10/16/01, 8:24, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, 8:28, New York Times, 9/12/01, before 8:28, Channel 4 News, 9/13/01] Immediately after hearing this voice, the controller "knew right then that he was working a hijack." [Village Voice, 9/13/01] Ben Sliney, the FAA's National Operations Manager, soon hears of the message "We have some planes" and later says the phrase haunts him all morning. [USA Today, 8/13/02] The transponder beacon and radio have been off for 10 minutes, the flight has been off course for about four minutes and only now he knows it's a hijack? Even so, no one notifies NORAD for another 14 minutes?

8:25 a.m. Boston flight controllers notify other flight control centers of the Flight 11 hijacking, but supposedly they don't notify (NORAD for another 6 or 15 minutes (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.). [8:25:00, Guardian, 10/17/01] Why isn't NORAD also notified at this time? Note that this means the controllers working Flights 77 and Flight 93 would have been aware of Flight 11's hijacking from this time. [Village Voice, 9/13/01]

8:28 a.m. Boston flight control radar sees Flight 11 making an unplanned 100-degree turn to the south (they're already way off-course). Flight controllers say they never lost sight of the flight, though they could no longer determine altitude once the transponder was turned off. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01] Before this turn, the FAA had tagged Flight 11's radar dot for easy visibility, and at American Airlines headquarters at least, "All eyes watched as the plane headed south. On the screen, the plane showed a squiggly line after its turn near Albany, then it straightened." [Wall Street Journal, 10/15/01] "Boston Center could still track it on primary radar...." [Newhouse News, 1/25/02] Boston flight controller Mark Hodgkins later says, "I watched the target of American 11 the whole way down." [ABC, 9/6/02] Clearly, an early report stating, "Boston airport officials said they did not spot the plane's course until it had crashed, and said the control tower had no unusual communication with the pilots or any crew members" [Washington Post, 9/12/01], is incorrect, as is another account that says flight controllers only find Flight 11 at 8:42. [Newsday, 9/10/02] But apparently NEADS, part of NORAD, has different radar, and even at 8:40 they cannot find Flight 11. Boston has to periodically update NEADS on Flight 11's position by telephone until NEADS finally finds it a few minutes before it crashes into the WTC. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02, ABC News, 9/11/02, Newhouse News, 1/25/02]

Secretary of State Colin Powell leaves Lima, Peru after hearing the news. [AFP]

(Around 8:30 a.m.) Just prior to learning about the 9/11 attacks, many of the US's leaders are scattered across the US and overseas. Vice President Cheney and National Security Advisor Rice are at their offices in the White House. Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is at his office in the Pentagon, meeting with a delegation from Capitol Hill. Secretary of State Powell is in Lima, Peru. CIA Director Tenet is at breakfast with his old friend and mentor, former senator David Boren (D), at the St. Regis Hotel, three blocks from the White House. General Henry Shelton, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is flying across the Atlantic on the way to Europe. Attorney General Ashcroft is flying to Milwaukee. FBI Director Mueller is in his office at FBI headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue. [Washington Post, 1/27/02] Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta is at his office at the Department of Transportation. [Senate Commerce Committee, 9/20/01] Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Joe Allbaugh is at a conference in Montana. [ABC, 9/14/02 (] George Bush Sr. is supposedly on a flight from Washington to St. Paul, Minnesota, and has his plane diverted to Milwaukee when the air ban begins. [Time, 9/24/01]

8:31 a.m. NORAD employee Lt. Colonel Dawne Deskins later says that Boston flight control notifies NORAD of Flight 77's hijacking at this time, not at 8:40 as has been widely reported, even by Deskins previously (see 8:40 a.m.). [ABC News, 9/11/02] Another later report states, "Shortly after 8:30 a.m., behind the scenes, word of a possible hijacking [reaches] various stations of NORAD." [ABC News, 9/14/02] If Deskins' most recent account is right, Boston flight controllers wait about 10 minutes after they are sure Flight 11 was hijacked before notifying NORAD. Otherwise, Boston waits about 20 minutes.

8:33 a.m. Flight controllers hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: "Nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves." [8:33, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, 8:33:59, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:33:59, New York Times, 10/16/01]

Air National Guard troops at NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) try to locate hijacked aircraft. [Aviation Week and Space Technology]

(8:35 a.m.) Bush's motorcade leaves for Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. [8:30, Washington Post, 1/27/02, 8:35, Sarasota Magazine, 9/19/01, 8:39, Washington Times, 10/7/02] He said farewell to the management at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort at 8:20. [Telegraph, 12/16/01] Note that an early report that as Bush is leaving the resort, a reporter asks him, "Do you know what's going on in New York?" [ABC News, 9/11/01], appears to be mistaken. Perhaps it happens when Bush arrives at the school?

(8:36 a.m.) On Flight 11, flight attendant Betty Ong reports that the plane tilts all the way on one side and then becomes horizontal again. Flight attendant Amy Sweeney then reports on her phone that the plane has begun a rapid descent. ["About 15 minutes" after the calls began, ABC News, 7/18/02]

8:37 a.m. Flight controllers ask the Flight 175 pilots to look for a lost American Airlines plane 10 miles to the south - a reference to Flight 11. They respond that they can see it. They are told to keep away from it. [8:37:08, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:37, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, the incident is not included in New York Times flight controller transcript of New York Times, 10/16/01]

(8:38 a.m.) Flight 11 pilot John Ogonowski's periodic activation of the talk-back button, begun around 8:14, stops around this time. It is suggested that means this is when the hijackers replace him as pilot. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01, MSNBC, 9/15/01]

NORAD commander Larry Arnold. [Code One]

(8:40 a.m.) Boston flight control supposedly notifies NORAD that Flight 11 has been hijacked (another account says it happens earlier (see 8:31 a.m.). [8:38, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:38, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:40, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:40, AP, 8/19/02, 8:40, Newsday, 9/10/02] This is about 20 minutes after traffic control noticed the plane had its transponder beacon and radio turned off. Such a delay in notification would be in strict violation of regulations. Tech. Sgt. Jeremy Powell, a member of the Air National Guard at NEADS, part of NORAD, takes the call from Boston Center. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02, Newhouse News, 1/25/02] He gives the phone to Lt. Colonel Dawne Deskins, regional Mission Crew Chief for the Vigilant Guardian exercise: "I picked up the line and I identified myself to the Boston Center controller, and he said, we have a hijacked aircraft and I need to get you some sort of fighters out here to help us out." Deskins then tells Colonel Robert Marr, head of NEADS, "I have FAA on the phone, the shout line, Boston Center. They said they have a hijacked aircraft." Marr then calls Major General Larry Arnold at NORAD's command Center in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, and says, "Boss, I need to scramble [fighters at] Otis [Air National Guard Base]." Arnold later says, "I said go ahead and scramble them, and we'll get the authorities later." [ABC News, 9/11/02] Deskins later says that initially she and "everybody" else at NEADS thought the call was part of the Vigilant Guardian exercise. After the phone call she had to clarify to everyone that it was not a drill. [Newhouse News, 1/25/02] NORAD commander Major General Larry Arnold in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, also says that when he hears of the hijacking at this time, "The first thing that went through my mind was, is this part of the exercise? Is this some kind of a screw-up?" [ABC News, 9/11/02]

(8:40 a.m.) Major Daniel Nash (codenamed Nasty) and Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy (codenamed Duff) are the two F-15 pilots who would scramble after Flight 11 and then Flight 175. Nash says that at this time, a colleague at the Otis Air National Guard Base tells him that a flight out of Boston has been hijacked, and to be on alert. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02] NEADS senior technician Jeremy Powell also later says that he telephones Otis Air Base and tells it to upgrade its "readiness posture." [Newhouse News, 1/25/02] Duffy also says he is told in advance about the hijacking by the FAA in Boston. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] Nash and Duffy put on their flight gear and get ready. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02] They are already halfway to their jets when "battle stations" are sounded. Duffy briefs Nash on what he knows, and, "About 4-5 minutes later, we [get] the scramble order and [take] off." [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] If this is true, why isn't the order to scramble given when the FAA called the pilots, instead of six minutes later? And even stranger, why does it take another six minutes (8:52) for the fighters to take off, if they had been given a heads up warning to get ready? Had the order to scramble been given now, there would be plenty of time for these fighters to reach New York before Flight 175.

United Airlines Flight 175, a Boeing 767.

8:41 a.m. The pilots of Flight 175 tell ground control about Flight 11, "We figured we'd wait to go to your center. We heard a suspicious transmission on our departure out of Boston. Someone keyed the mike and said: 'Everyone stay in your seats.' It cut out." [8:41, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:41, Newsday, 9/10/02, 8:41:32, New York Times, 10/16/01] An alternate version: ''We heard a suspicious transmission on our departure from B-O-S [Boston's airport code]. Sounds like someone keyed the mike and said, 'Everyone, stay in your seats.''' [Boston Globe, 11/23/01] The last transmission from Flight 175, still discussing this message, comes a few seconds before 8:42. [New York Times, 10/16/01] Presumably Flight 175 is hijacked within the next minute.

Flight 93's intended and actual routes. [USA Today]

(8:42 a.m.) Flight 93 takes off from Newark International Airport, bound for San Francisco. It leaves 41 minutes late because of heavy runway traffic. [MSNBC, 9/3/02] [8:41, Newsweek, 9/22/01, 8:41, AP, 8/19/02, 8:42, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 10/28/01, 8:42, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:42, Guardian, 10/17/01]

8:42 a.m. Flight 175 veers from its official course. [Boston Globe, 11/23/01] (An early CNN reports says the deviation happens at 8:50, but that's probably when the plane, already off-course, makes a complete U-turn north.) [CNN, 9/17/01]

8:42 a.m. A flight controller says of Flight 175, "... looks like he's heading southbound but there's no transponder no nothing and no one's talking to him." [New York Times, 10/16/01]

Brian Sweeney, right, and Peter Hanson, left, both called from Flight 175.

(Before 8:43 a.m.) At some unknown time period, businessman Peter Burton Hanson calls his father from Flight 175 and says, "Oh, my God! They just stabbed the airline hostess. I think the airline is being hijacked." Despite being cut off twice, he manages to report how men armed with knives are stabbing flight attendants, apparently in an attempt to force crew to unlock the doors to the cockpit. He calls again and says good-bye just before the plane crashes. [Toronto Sun, 9/16/01, BBC, 9/13/01] This appears to have been one of only two passengers who call from this flight (an unnamed flight stewardess calls as well). Hanson also has a lot of trouble staying connected - is his flight too high up to enable people to easily call out?

8:43 a.m. NORAD is notified that Flight 175 has been hijacked. [8:43, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:43, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:43, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:43, AP, 8/19/02, 8:43, Newsday, 9/10/02] Apparently NORAD doesn't need to be notified, because by this time NEADS technicians have their headsets linked to the FAA in Boston to hear about Flight 11, and so NORAD learns instantly about Flight 175. [Newhouse News, 1/25/02] Note that this means the controllers working Flight 77 and Flight 93 would have been aware of both Flight 175 and Flight 11's hijacking from this time.

8:44 a.m. The pilot of US Airlines Flight 583 tells flight control, regarding Flight 175, "I just picked up an ELT [emergency locator transmitter] on 121.5 it was brief but it went off." The controller responds, "O.K. they said it's confirmed believe it or not as a thing, we're not sure yet..." [New York Times, 10/16/01] This appears to have been the only plane in which the emergency signal is triggered by the pilot.

8:44 a.m. Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld is talking about terrorism in the Pentagon. "Let me tell ya," he says, "I've been around the block a few times. There will be another event." He then repeats it for emphasis, "There will be another event." [AP, 9/16/01, Rep. Cox Statement, 9/11/01] Note that supposedly he doesn't know of the hijackings in progress, and says this two minutes before the first WTC crash. He makes other predictive comments "moments" before Flight 77 hits the Pentagon (see (9:38 a.m.)).

F-15 pilot Major Daniel Nash. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02]

(8:45 a.m.) Just prior to the crash of Flight 11, flight attendant Amy Sweeney is asked on the phone if she can recognize where she is. She says, "I see the water. I see the buildings. I see buildings," then after a pause, a quiet "Oh, my God!" Mere seconds later the line goes dead. Meanwhile, flight attendant Betty Ong ends her call repeating the phrase "Pray for us" over and over. Apparently there is quiet instead of screaming in the background. [ABC News, 7/18/02]

(8:46 a.m.) Two F-15 fighters are ordered to scramble from Otis Air National Guard Base in Massachusetts to find Flight 11, approximately 190 miles from the known location of the plane and 188 miles from New York City. Fighters in nearer bases are not scrambled. This is six to fifteen minutes after NORAD has been told the plane was hijacked (see 8:31 a.m. and 8:40 a.m.), 29 minutes after losing contact with the plane. [8:39, Channel 4 News, 9/13/01, 8:44, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:44, Washington Post, 9/15/01, 8:44, Los Angeles Times, 9/17/01, 8:46, NORAD, 9/18/01] Supposedly, the scramble order comes after only one phone call - the decision is made to act first and get clearances later. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] So why did it take 6-8 minutes to issue the order? According to the two pilots, Major Daniel Nash and Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, they are geared up and walking toward their planes when this alarm to scramble sounds. As soon as they strap in, the green light to launch goes on, and they're up even before their jets' radar kicks in. [Cape Cod Times, 8/21/02] Yet, supposedly, it takes six more minutes for them to launch.

Flight 11 hits the WTC North Tower at 8:46. [Gamma Press] Note that few images exist of this hit.

8:46 a.m. Flight 11 slams into the north tower, 1 World Trade Center. Investigators believe it still had about 10,000 gallons of fuel and was traveling 470 mph. [New York Times, 9/11/02] Approximately 2662 people are killed on the ground between this crash and the crash of Flight 175. [AP, 8/19/02] [8:45, CNN, 9/12/01, 8:45, New York Times, 9/12/01, 8:46 (based on seismic data), New York Times, 9/12/01, 8:46, CNN, 9/17/01, 8:46, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:46, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:46, AP, 8/19/02, 8:46, USA Today, 9/3/02, 8:46, USA Today, 8/13/02, 8:46, Newsday, 9/10/02, 8:47:00, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:48, MSNBC, 9/22/01, 8:46:26, New York Times, 9/11/02, 8:46:26, seismic records]

The hole caused by the Flight 11 crash [Reuters]

(8:46 a.m.) Flight 175 stops transmitting its transponder signal, according to some reports. It is 50 miles north of New York City, headed toward Baltimore. [8:46:18, Guardian, 10/17/01, "about the same time" as Flight 11 crash, Newsday, 9/10/02] Another lie? Note that at 8:42, a flight controller said, "There's no transponder no nothing." [New York Times, 10/16/01] However, the transponder is turned off for only about 30 seconds, then changed to a signal that is not designated for any plane on that day. [Newsday, 9/10/02] This "allow[s] controllers to track the intruder easily, though they couldn't identify it." [Washington Post, 9/17/01]

8:46 a.m. At the time of the first WTC crash, three F-16s assigned to Andrews Air Force Base 10 miles from Washington are flying an air-to-ground training mission on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles away. Eventually they are recalled to Andrews and land there at some point after Flight 77 crashes into the Pentagon. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 9/9/02] F-16s can travel a maximum speed of 1500 mph. Traveling even at 1100 mph, the speed NORAD Major General Larry Arnold says two fighters from Massachusetts travel toward Flight 175, at least one of the F-16s could have returned to Washington within 10 minutes and started patrolling the skies well before 9:00 a.m. Why are they recalled so late, and then ordered back to base (and then to take off again) instead of being sent straight to Washington?

American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757.

(8:46 a.m.) Flight 77 from Washington goes severely off course. It heads due north for a while, then flies due south and gets back on course. It is off course by around 15 miles, and stays off course for about five minutes, judging from flight path maps. [See USA Today's Flight 77 flight path] According to regulations a fighter should have scrambled to see what was going on, regardless of any excuses from the pilot.

(After 8:46 a.m.) Bush will say in a speech later that evening: "Immediately following the first attack, I implemented our government's emergency response plans." [White, 9/11/01] Whatever these plans were, they don't seem to involve scrambling aircraft at this time.

(After 8:46 a.m.) Shortly after the WTC is hit, the FAA has an open telephone line with the Secret Service, keeping them informed of all events. [Cheney: "The Secret Service has an arrangement with the FAA. They had open lines after the World Trade Center was... " - he stops himself before finishing the sentence, NBC, 9/16/01]

(After 8:46 a.m.) Brigadier General Montague Winfield is in command of the National Military Command Center (NMCC), "the military's worldwide nerve center." [CNN, 9/4/02] According to NORAD command director Captain Michael Jellinek, at some point not long after the WTC hit, telephone links are established with the National Military Command Center (NMCC) located inside the Pentagon (but on the opposite side from where the Pentagon explosion will happen), Canada's equivalent command center, Strategic Command, theater commanders, and federal emergency-response agencies. An Air Threat Conference Call is initiated. At one time or another, Bush, Cheney, key military officers, leaders of the FAA and NORAD, the White House, and Air Force One are heard on the open line. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02, CNN, 9/4/02, ABC News, 9/11/02] Says Winfield, "All of the governmental agencies there that, that were involved in any activity that was going on in the United States at that point, were in that conference." [ABC News, 9/11/02] The call continues right through the Pentagon explosion, as the NMCC doesn't even feel the impact. [CNN, 9/4/02] However, despite being in the Pentagon, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld doesn't join the NMCC or the call until 10:30 (see 10:30 a.m.).

(After 8:46 a.m.) A few minutes after the 8:46 WTC crash, CIA Director Tenet is told of the crash while he is eating breakfast with former Senator David Boren. Boren says Tenet is told that the WTC has been attacked by an airplane: "I was struck by the fact that [the messenger] used the word attacked." Tenet then hands a cell phone back to an aide and says to Boren, "You know, this has bin Laden's fingerprints all over it." [ABC, 9/14/02] Why is Bush supposedly under the impression the crash was an accident well after Tenet has been told it was an attack? Does Tenet try to communicate with Bush at this time?

(Between 8:46 - 9:03 a.m.) As soon as Boston flight controllers hear news that a plane might have hit the WTC, they know it was Flight 11. They have been tracking it continually since it began behaving erratically. It takes "several minutes" for Boston to report to NORAD that Flight 11 is responsible. [New York Times, 9/13/01 (F), Newhouse News, 1/25/02] However, flight controllers in New York City complain that they aren't given a conclusive report of what happened to Flight 11 until just before Flight 175 crashes at 9:03. "We had 90 to 120 seconds; it wasn't any 18 minutes," says one controller, referring to the actual elapsed time between the two crashes. Another controller says: "They dove into the airspace. By the time anybody saw anything, it was over." [New York Times, 9/13/01 (F)]

In this map, the yellow star is roughly where Bush's motorcade is when Flight 11 crashes at 8:46, and the orange star is where he is when told about the crash a few minutes later. [Made with Yahoo Maps]

(Between 8:46 - 8:55 a.m.) When Flight 11 hits the WTC at 8:46, Bush's motorcade is crossing the John Ringling Causeway on the way to Booker Elementary from the Colony Beach & Tennis Resort on Longboat Key. [Washington Times, 10/8/02] Sarasota Magazine claims that Bush is on Highway 301, just north of Main Street when he is told that a plane had crashed in New York City. [Sarasota Magazine, 9/19/01] Around the same time, news photographer Eric Draper is riding in another car in the motorcade with Press Secretary Ari Fleischer, and overhears Fleischer say on a cell phone, "Oh, my God, I don't believe it. A plane just hit the World Trade Center." Fleischer is told he will be needed on arrival to discuss reports of the crash. [Christian Science Monitor, 9/17/01, Albuquerque Tribune, 9/10/02] Fleischer is told this "just minutes" after the first news reports. [MSNBC, 10/29/02] Congressman Dan Miller also says he is told about the crash just before meeting Bush at Booker at 8:55. [Sarasota Magazine, 9/19/01] Some reporters waiting for him to arrive also learn of the crash just minutes after it happens. [CBS, 9/11/02 (] It would make sense that Bush is told about the crash immediately and at the same time that others hear about it. Yet Bush and others claim he isn't told until he arrives at the school.

Here we see that the act of negligence wasn't that the pilots could or could not fly 1875 miles per hour, but that THEY WEREN'T SCRAMBLED TILL AFTER 8:45 WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HAD STRUCK AND THIS WAS A FULL 30 MINUTES AFTER THE HIJACKING HAD OCCURED.
What we have here, dear reader,is more than a failure to communicate, it's ineptitude of the Commander-in-Chief, who literally 'sat' and read kids books AFTER he was told of the hijackings. It is a fact that people had been physically picked up and taken to underground bunkers in basement of White House by Secret Service personnel, and this President wants us to believe he knew nothing about it happening. Then, when told of it, says it was a horible accident by some pilot! You can't refute the video record of him being asked about the attack when he arrived at the school by NEWS REPORTERS WHO ALSO KNew IT WAS HAPPENING, while the President tells history he did not, B.S. pure and simple.
This President is guilty of gross negligence and displaying an inability to efficiently and decisively act under attacK. This gross negligence resulted in the death of those he was charged with defending. Such and Officer would be stripped of his command in the field.
Move-on indeed. My fellow Americans DIED in those attacks and I want accountability for them, political Party affiliation be damned. We'll "move-on" as soon as every American I can inform of these facts is informed. So go read it all at: No Mormons or wackos conspiracy site at all, just a literal transcript of every minute of 9/11 from sun-up to midnight from many MANY sources and a well documented factual site the shills don't want you to see.

on Dec 22, 2003
All that timeline confirms that the President knew before reading to those school children was that a plane had crashed into the WTC. The President would not, in any normal circumstances rush to the site of a plane crash. I didn't read anything in that timeline that convinced me that the President had any chance to thwart the tragedy that occured.

I find it boggling that so many people are quicker to demonize GW than OSB!

I am informed. I still blame OSB. I will "move-on" when OSB is held accountable.

This seems like another example of 20-20 hindsight. People can sit back, read over accounts of what happened, when it happened, etc. and decide what they think should have been done. I remember well seeing the first plane crash and I told my husband "a terrible accident just happened." The second crash was when the cold chills and panic set in. Who could have ever imagined anything so horrific? OSB and his followers, that's who.
on Dec 22, 2003
If you don't believe that money rules the world and that collateral damage is acceptable to ensure our fat bloated society's way of life and to not even entertain the ideal that something may be amiss is exactly what they want from you ~smiles~ You are the prefection of what the rich elite and the media are trying to create zombies who believe and do as they are told. To rely on a single source or sight for your information is even more proof of biasism ~grins~. So to you I say BAHAHAHAHAHHA!
on Dec 23, 2003
Reply By: Wahkonta Anathema
Here we see that the act of negligence wasn't that the pilots could or could not fly 1875 miles per hour, but that THEY WEREN'T SCRAMBLED TILL AFTER 8:45 WHEN THE FIRST PLANE HAD STRUCK AND THIS WAS A FULL 30 MINUTES AFTER THE HIJACKING HAD OCCURED.

conspiracy site Wahkonta quoted 8 screens of so it's a pain to read the comments section says:
At an average speed of 1125 mph, they would reach the city in 10 minutes - 9:02. So if NORAD commander Arnold's speed is correct, these fighters should reach Flight 175 just before it crashes. Yet according to the NORAD timeline [NORAD, 9/18/01], these planes take about 19 minutes to reach New York City, traveling less than 600 mph.

well, you say it doesn't matter, but then why does the conspiracy site question it? because he can't spend five minutes looking up the answer when he can simply cloud the issue.

btw, you do realize that real life isn't like an episode of 24? in that show, jack bauer spends half the episodes in a season screaming into his cellphone "i need to speak to the president!" and then gets him on the line in 30 seconds, the president makes a decision, and then the action happens immediately. it takes time for information to travel upward and then orders to flow down. you do know that every air rage incident or hijacking did not have air traffic controllers getting f-15s in the air right away becase there no one realized that they might fly into buildings?

i see the guy on the site bitching about delays of six minutes. it feels like he is used to watching movies where some general gets vital info then the next scene you see planes coming off the runways or alarms sounding right away. if there were icbms heading to the us mainland it would probably take 6 minutes for our nukes to launch in response, IF we were quick. and this is with a guy with the nuclear command authorization communication 'football' thingie following the president, missile crews at alert at all times, nukes prepped at all times, and constant training and drilling. with hijacked planes flying into buildings, response times will no doubt be slower.

every conspiracy theorists trots out the same methods over and over. they ignore arguments. they call the people who disagree with them mindless brain-washed sheep. they never show proof, just theories, or massive amounts of useless information to confuse the issue. and for a little extra flavor the threat of israeli (ie jew) spies behind/controlling everything.

from that site that was listed a a good resource:

The facts are that the evidence for Israeli involvement is substantial. Two workers in an Israeli company located in New York got advance warnings by e-mail two hours before the attacks. Israeli "art students" were shadowing the alleged hijackers for many months during their sojourns in flight schools around the United States. Five Israelis were arrested for dancing in celebration shortly after the planes hit the towers; two had connections to the Mossad. And, perhaps foremost, in the city with the largest Jewish population in the entire world, virtually no Israelis were killed in the 9/11 attacks.

ya see!?!?!? two israelis(names enver mentioned) at a company(not named) got email(contents are never printed) warnings!!!

israelis were dancing after the towers were hit!!! because mossad agents are so idiotic as to celebrate a successful strike against america in the street(but smart enough to manipulate america into attacking arab countries)!

another choice bit:
The commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force, Anatoli Kornukov, says the day after 9/11: "Generally it is impossible to carry out an act of terror on the scenario which was used in the USA yesterday.... As soon as something like that happens here, I am reported about that right away and in a minute we are all up." [Pravda, 9/12/01]

does anyone remember the time that a teen in a freaking prop plane landed in the middle of red square moscow in the 80s(link)? or the time a plane landed in the south lawn of the white house? (link) are these guys "agentes" too? america has probably always been vulnerable to suicide plane strikes. we were just too stupid to do anything about it because we had a failure of imagination. btw, interesting trivia question: when did the white house crash happen? on september 12, 1994.

it's late and i have to go to bed. making a trip to the parents for christmas. be back next holidays people!
on Dec 05, 2004
on Dec 05, 2004

Reply #6 By: Wahkonta Anathema - 12/22/2003 10:29:47 AM
Well, since you are equating the link with some mormon conspiracy site, which is a deliberate deception,(agente?) please allow a response. Let us read what this site IN FACT states of 9/11:

8:52 a.m. Two F-15s take off from Otis ANG Base, six minutes after being ordered to go after Flight 11, which has already crashed. [8:52, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:52, CNN, 9/17/01,
8:53, Washington Post, 9/12/01, 8:52, Washington Post, 9/15/01, 8:52, ABC News, 9/11/02] This is 38 minutes after flight controllers lost contact with the plane. They go after Flight 175 instead. According to Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy, one of the pilots, before takeoff, a fellow officer had told him "This looks like the real thing." He says, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way." A NORAD commander has said the planes were stocked with extra fuel as well. [Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02] Full-blower is very rare - it means the fighters are going as fast as they can go. An F-15 can travel over 1875 mph.

I don't know about all the rest, but *this* statement is false!

McDonnell Douglas
(now Boeing)
F-15 Eagle
Air Superiority Fighter

Forseeing the need to replace its fleet of F-4 Phantoms, the US Air Force issued the FX requirement for a long-range air superiority fighter in 1965. Performance requirements called for beyond visual range air-to-air capability, close-in dogfighting capability, twin engines, an internal gun, sufficient ferry range to deploy to Europe without refueling, and a maximum speed of Mach 2.5. McDonnell Douglas was selected over rivals North American and Fairchild Republic to build what would become the F-15 Eagle.
The McDonnell Douglas approach incorporated advanced aerodynamics into a large wing that gives the F-15 a low wing loading and good agility for such a large aircraft. However, transonic buffet and flutter problems were encountered in early flight tests requiring an enlarged airbrake, cropping of the trailing edges of the wingtips, and adding notched dogtooths to the tailplanes. The addition of external compression adjustable inlets and the extensive use of titanium allowed the F-15 to meet its Mach 2.5 speed requirement at high altitude, though the speed is limited to Mach 1.78 when armed. The F-15 revolutionized cockpit design by seating the pliot high under a large canopy to provide excellent visibility, and the use of a Hands On Throttle and Stick (HOTAS) arrangement places all vital controls near the pilots hands.

Although the Air Force had originally intended to order some 730 F-15A single-seat fighters and F-15B two-seat combat-capable trainers, only about 410 were built before production switched to the more capable F-15C/D models. These newer aircraft feature a new radar warning receiver, software updates, and conformal fuel tanks along the sides of the engine inlets that provide increased fuel capacity while not interfering with weapons carriage. Later F-15C/D models also received more powerful F100-220 engines plus the faster APG-70 radar with better resolution and greater memory when compared to the earlier APG-63.

Older F-15A/B and F-15C/D models have also been progressively upgraded through an ambitious Mid-Service Improvement Program (MSIP). Among the updates include upgrading to newer variants of the APG-63 radar, intoducing new avionics, and replacing outdated analog computers with digital central processors. Other advances include adding a new weapons display screen, improving internal countermeasures, and adding compatability with the AIM-120 AMRAAM. The potential of the basic F-15 airframe has been further exploited through the development of the two-seat F-15E strike model that adds a potent surface attack capability.

Older F-15A/C vehicles will begin to be replaced by the F-22 by about 2010, and some of the displaced fighters will likely be converted for use as air defense suppression aircraft.

Data below for F-15C
Last modified 14 November 2004

First Flight (F-15A) 27 July 1972
(F-15B) 7 July 1973
(F-15C) 26 February 1979
(F-15D) 19 June 1979
Service Entry

(F-15A) 9 January 1976
(F-15B) 14 November 1974
(F-15C) September 1979
(F-15D) December 1979

CREW: (F-15A/C) 1 pilot
(F-15B/D) 2 pilots


(F-15A/ $30.1 million
(F-15C/D) $34.3 million

Wing Root NACA 64A(.055)5.9
Wing Tip

NACA 64A203

Length 63.75 ft (19.43 m)
Wingspan 42.81 ft (13.05 m)
Height 18.46 ft (5.63 m)
Wing Area 608 ft2 (56.48 m2)
Canard Area

not applicable

Empty 28,600 lb (12,975 kg)
Typical Load (F-15A) 41,500 lb (18,885 kg)
(F-15C) 44,630 lb (20,245 kg)
Max Takeoff (F-15A) 56,000 lb (25,400 kg)
(F-15C) 68,000 lb (30,845 kg)
Fuel Capacity (F-15A)
internal: 11,600 lb (5,260 kg)
external: 11,895 lb (5,395 kg)
internal: 13,455 lb (6,105 kg)
external: 9,750 lb (4,425 kg)
Max Payload

(F-15A) 16,000 lb (7,260 kg)
(F-15C) 16,000 lb (7,260 kg) with conformal fuel tanks
(F-15C) 23,600 lb (10,705 kg) without conformal fuel tanks

Powerplant (F-15A) two Pratt & Whitney F100-100 afterburning turbofans
(F-15C) two Pratt & Whitney F100-220 afterburning turbofans
Thrust (F-15A) 29,340 lb (130.52 kN)
(F-15A) 47,660 lb (212.0 kN) with afterburner
(F-15C) 29,340 lb (130.52 kN)
(F-15C) 47,660 lb (212.0 kN) with afterburner

Max Level Speed at altitude: 1,665 mph (2,655 km/h) at 36,000 ft (10,975 m), Mach 2.5
at sea level: unknown
cruise speed: 570 mph (915 km/h)

Here's the link:


on Jul 26, 2006
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